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Times were way slower than qualifying...what was up?

First lap was a 73 and the 800 was a 2:27... No one wanted to lead it and i guess evryone expected the 427 guys (Francis, Wilson, Powers) to set a somewhat decent pace but that obviously didn't happen. I couldnt stand it ne more so i passed evryone and sped up lap 3 to make sure we would actually break 450. Everyone ended up kickin the 400. I guess the double guys were tryin to save it for the 2 mile but Easler still easily beat them.

That was an insanely slow pace for the first 800, it ended up just being an all out sprint at the end.

Those first two laps were frustrating. The pack just kept stopping then surging til the last two laps

i think mary-kate went out faster. i think i heard coach hudgins say she went out at 2:21...

i think having 4 wando guys in slowed it down a bit. it seemed strategic to me. they knew they had a kicker and having half the field they could slow it down to give him a chance. this is just me speculating though.

championship races you run for place not time usually. place takes the ultimate priority.

Championship races are run for places but when you have guys literally slowing down and looking back that is no championship. Now Easler's 3200 , Mary-Kate's and Lovelace's were real championships races. They took their lead and held it to the end. Why sit and kick? Where did it get anyone? Crappy times and an embarrassment to AAAA.

Yea girls 4A took it out in a 66 first lap, and the guys 4A 2 mile had a 72.

The "unusual" race style wasn't really anyone's fault, and I know for a fact that nobody in the field was expecting or hoping for a race like that. All of the top guys planned to sit on someone else for the first 3 and a half laps and kick on the last 200, but there wasn't anyone to sit on because they all had the same strategy of not leading. Eventually Powers, Wilson, and Lawson each led one of the first three laps, but not without a serious slowdown on each lap to force someone else to take the lead. I believe the lap splits were around 71, 75, 69 for the first three laps. At the 400 it became an all-out footrace to the finish, and the last lap was run in about 59 or 60. Sure it was unorthodox, but it still showed who had the most left and the most guts at the end of the race. It wasn't a good race for runners with weak kicks, but they had the option to take the lead and try to wear down the other runners if they felt they would be outkicked. The times may have been off, but the finishing order (Powers, Francis, Nesbitt, Wilson) was not that far from what was predicted based on PRs and what people have said on this forum. This race was an extreme version of what often happens at championship races, such as the Olympics, where there aren't any pacers to take the wind and the pack shuffles through the first three-quarters of the race before a frenzied kick to the finish ensues. This is not an embarrassment to 4A, it is the result of a highly strategic race where most of the athletes had a strong kick and preferred to try to win in a 4:36 rather than lead and then get 3rd or 4th in a 4:28 after being outkicked.

I am sorry but I mean no disrespect but I cannot accept a race like that with a time like that at a championship event.
Winning times
2005 4:16
2006 4:20
2007 4:23
2008 4:36

I realize that no one wanted to take the lead but after the first lap of 73 it should have been obvious something needed to change. The coach on the infield even made a remark to the pack about "maybe you guys will break 5 minutes" Perhaps it was the lack of seniors in the race that caused this to happen.

I guess my question is "Why wouldn't they want to take the lead?" knowing that they are 4:27 milers with only two other guys breaking 4:30?

I agree, runners of that skill level should not be scared to run thier pace. They were going slower?!! They should feel comfortable at going thier pace and not just decide i will do what somebody else does.

i have to agree with must win. i ran in the 1500 at my conference meet 2 weekends ago and it went almost the same way. the winning time was 10 seconds slower than the year before. both cases are extreme cases of championship races, but it happens.

though the times were not fast, it was still an exciting race. 7 hundredths of a second in a mile is very close. i was talking to the guy who got 3rd and he said he couldn't even tell who won. i personally have always been a fan of the kicker's race.

Even pacing is the best way to run fast times.
So, why is anyone complimenting Dubard on going out in 66 and then running each of her next 5 400 splits progressively slower?
With that openng lap, did she really think she was going to run back-to-back 4:24 miles? That was not a smart strategy, it was the exact opposite.

What if she'd been really intelligent and led off with an 80 and the run successive 80s throughout and not gone into oxygen debt at the 800 mark? I'd bet she is capable of a 10:40 and the state record.

Frankly, that would have been impressive -- to see her use her intelligence and athletic ability in concert -- and break Niehaus' state record.

That she won by a large margin is more a testimony to her being so much better than anyone else in the race rather than executing a good race plan.

Executing a good race plan is what Wando did...
Powers: 2 gold in 1600 and 4x800 & 1 bronze 3200, Wilson: 1 gold 4x800, 1 silver 3200 & 4th in 1600, Tyler(freshman):1 gold 4x800, 5th in1600, Fitts(hurt):6th in 1600, Montgomery: gold in 4x800
FIVE DISTANCE GUYS collect enough points to be SC State Runners Up!
That is a good game plan! With only 1 senior in the group,ya'll need to start XC practice NOW!

Congratulations Wando that is quite an accomplishment!

As far as Mary-Kate I was not keeping her splits but merely saw someone taking a lead and not giving it up.

Running a fast time with no one pushing you can be done, but is hard. I agree that her winning the two mile was mostly her being so much better than anyone else out there.

Number1Fan

Executing a good race plan is what Wando did...

FIVE DISTANCE GUYS collect enough points to be SC State Runners Up!

wando definitely executed a good race plan. i had a feeling that wando would do that having half the field.

fort mill did the same thing last year. 4x800 and a triple jumper

Number1Fan

ya'll need to start XC practice NOW!

Check this out only 5 seniors graduating out of the top 25 from XC 4A state last year and a lot of up and coming underclassmen that we didn't see last year. Can't wait for that race!

Event 2 Boys 5k Run CC 4A Boys
==================================================================================
Name Year School Avg Mile Finals Points
==================================================================================
1 #146 Mark Blackmon 8 Fort Mill 5:08 15:55 1
2 #96 Brandon Easler 10 Dorman 5:12 16:08 2
3 #74 Mick Francis 10 Clover 5:18 16:26 3
4 #320 Matt Humphries 10 South Florence 5:19 16:30
5 #436 Stephen Wilson 12 Wando 5:20 16:34 4
6 #429 Josh Fitts 11 Wando 5:21 16:35 5
7 #100 Caleb Robinson 11 Dorman 5:21 16:38 6
8 #303 Justin Albertson 11 South Aiken 5:22 16:38 7
9 #147 Ryan Fielden 12 Fort Mill 5:22 16:39 8
10 #432 Eric Powers 11 Wando 5:22 16:39 9
11 #245 Kevin Coleman 11 Nation Ford 5:22 16:39 10
12 #281 David Jennings 9 Ridge View 5:23 16:42 11
13 #385 Josh Taylor 11 Summerville 5:24 16:44 12
14 #265 Tip Reburn 11 Northwestern 5:26 16:51 13
15 #435 Timothy Tyler 9 Wando 5:27 16:56 14
16 #354 Mark Nehez 12 Spring Valley 5:28 16:58 15
17 #101 Chase Wolfe 10 Dorman 5:28 16:58 16
18 #16 James Jackson 12 Aiken High School 5:29 17:00 17
19 #149 Daniel Kalshoven 12 Fort Mill 5:29 17:02 18
20 #54 Ted Nisbett 11 Boiling Springs 5:29 17:03
21 #339 Matthew MacPhail 8 Spartanburg 5:32 17:10 19
22 #268 Max Wellborn 10 Northwestern 5:32 17:11 20
23 #232 Eric Lawson 11 Mauldin 5:33 17:13 21
24 #386 Clayton Thornton 11 Summerville 5:33 17:14 22
25 #387 Sebastian Tillman 11 Summerville 5:33 17:15 23

I believe that there was a mistake in Once a Runners post, some of you are mistaken about which race Mary Kate went out in 67 in. It was the 1600, not the 3200 and yes she was at 2:21 at the 800. If you will check out her time she finished at 5:00.66. The strategy was to win and make sure that Tiayonna Blackmon wasn't close at the finish. She didn't want Tiayonna to be in a position to out kick her. We know the kind of talent and heart that Tiayonna has and we know what kind of kick she has. In case you have forgotten she started her career at Northwestern where she helped win consecutive AAAA state chmpionships so we have great respect for her. I believe that MK's strategy worked just fine. She was more interested in winning and making sure the team got the 10 points, than in setting a new state record or trying to impress someone with how smart of race she ran. I don't understand why anyone would want to question her after winning two golds. She is the ultimate team player. As for why she was so much better, it is called work and she has done plenty of it.

In my mind, a good race plan is one that achieves the goal. At state the goal is to win. The time (in most cases - not all) is secondary.

Yes, a gold medal and 4 seconds off a state record is great!

GoMavs

I am sorry but I mean no disrespect but I cannot accept a race like that with a time like that at a championship event.

Youve seen a championship race before right? anywhere except high school they are notoriously slow. Championship distance races are about winning, not running fast. The WC 5,000 last year was won in something like 1345. Times are not important. Congrats to the guys who ran smart and used how the race panned out to their advantage.

Wow, times are not important? And yes I have watched plenty of championship races in my day.
I guess my disappoinment comes from wanting more from the boys 1600 & 3200 times this year in SC. Lovelace and Easler are the only two boys who have times that have made "Elite" status is the 3200 this year and Lovelace the only one in the 1600. Yet we have Dubard, Blackmon, Borowicz, Inclan, Kulik and Barker in the 1600 with elite times and Dubard, Borowicz ahd Haughey in the 3200. Our girls distance times can compete at a national level so why shouldn't we expect the same from our boys?

I am curious did you actually see the race we are talking about?

no I did not. But I dont see how that is relevant. And yes I stand by what I said. Times do not matter in championship races. Never have, never will. Championships are about winning, no matter how fast or slow that may be. yea, maybe SC distance times arent measuring up to the rest of the country as much as we would all like them to, but the state meet is not the place to worry about that. you mention Luke. Lets use him as an example. Did he try to run fast every race? nope. He is capable of way faster than he ran in all of those events. But he focused on winning, because in the end, thats why people race, to try and win.

oh it is very relevant.
Congratulations to all that won and didn't win and made it to the meet.

no, it isnt.