Lower State Meet Course
10/24/2013 5:29:19 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
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After the debacle that was last year’s 3mile course not 3.1 there are questions. Has the course been fixed? Secondly how were they able to host here again unpunished? If this course is in fact not legitimately 3.1 this year I am willing to start a petition. This isn't some small invite rather the second most important race for many athletes. The race organizers better have there stuff together!!!!! B-)
After the debacle that was last year's 3mile course not 3.1 there are questions. Has the course been fixed? Secondly how were they able to host here again unpunished? If this course is in fact not legitimately 3.1 this year I am willing to start a petition. This isn't some small invite rather the second most important race for many athletes. The race organizers better have there stuff together!!!!!
10/24/2013 7:30:13 PM
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Organizers, not organizer's. Their, not there. Let's hope that you're not a teacher.
Organizers, not organizer's. Their, not there. Let's hope that you're not a teacher.
10/24/2013 7:56:24 PM
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@trailrunnur thought this was a running website. Wow.....I feel so much better about my post knowing you were able to correct some minor grammatical errors.. I remember that next time before I post something in a hurry on here. I hope your not one of those teachers who can't leave school at school.;-) By the way you might need this. Definitions edit Their pronoun • a form of the possessive case of they used as an attributive adjective, before a noun: their home; their rights as citizens; their departure for Rome. • used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her: Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch? edit There adverb • in or at that place (opposed to here): She is there now. • at that point in an action, speech, etc.: He stopped there for applause. • in that matter, particular, or respect: His anger was justified there. • used by way of calling attention to something or someone: There they go. pronoun • used to introduce a sentence or clause in which the verb comes before its subject or has no complement: There is no hope. • that place: He comes from there, too. • that point. noun • that state or condition: I'll introduce you to her, but you're on your own from there on. adjective • used for emphasis, esp. after a noun modified by a demonstrative adjective: Ask that man there. interjection • used to express satisfaction, relief, encouragement, approval, consolation, etc.: There! It's done.
@trailrunnur thought this was a running website. Wow.....I feel so much better about my post knowing you were able to correct some minor grammatical errors.. I remember that next time before I post something in a hurry on here. I hope your not one of those teachers who can't leave school at school. By the way you might need this.

Definitions

edit Their

pronoun
• a form of the possessive case of they used as an attributive adjective, before a noun: their home; their rights as citizens; their departure for Rome.
• used after an indefinite singular antecedent in place of the definite masculine form his or the definite feminine form her: Someone left their book on the table. Did everyone bring their lunch?

edit There

adverb
• in or at that place (opposed to here): She is there now.
• at that point in an action, speech, etc.: He stopped there for applause.
• in that matter, particular, or respect: His anger was justified there.
• used by way of calling attention to something or someone: There they go.

pronoun
• used to introduce a sentence or clause in which the verb comes before its subject or has no complement: There is no hope.
• that place: He comes from there, too.
• that point.

noun
• that state or condition: I'll introduce you to her, but you're on your own from there on.

adjective
• used for emphasis, esp. after a noun modified by a demonstrative adjective: Ask that man there.

interjection
• used to express satisfaction, relief, encouragement, approval, consolation, etc.: There! It's done.
10/24/2013 8:59:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
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Cute argument.
Cute argument.
10/24/2013 10:22:14 PM
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As usual, useless drivel..what a shame!!
As usual, useless drivel..what a shame!!
10/25/2013 12:08:16 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Its cross country, times can't really be accurately compared across courses, so what does it really matter? If the course doesn't change compared to last year, then you can accurately compare performance at Lower State year to year, which is far more useful than comparing what a team ran at Lower state compared to Sandhills. Plenty of courses aren't the exact distance in xc, including the world cross country course in Bydgoszcz. You'd better start a petition to the IAAF!
Its cross country, times can't really be accurately compared across courses, so what does it really matter? If the course doesn't change compared to last year, then you can accurately compare performance at Lower State year to year, which is far more useful than comparing what a team ran at Lower state compared to Sandhills.

Plenty of courses aren't the exact distance in xc, including the world cross country course in Bydgoszcz. You'd better start a petition to the IAAF!
10/25/2013 8:24:54 AM
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@southkakrun I disagree. But I understand your point. Alright with the course being a little off but this course needs to change. Its not to hard to incorporate .1 into any course. Its people just being lazy. Or someone who could care less about the sport. "Oh its only 3 miles no one will ever know". If not fixed this meet should move to Mullet Hall.
@southkakrun I disagree. But I understand your point. Alright with the course being a little off but this course needs to change. Its not to hard to incorporate .1 into any course. Its people just being lazy. Or someone who could care less about the sport. "Oh its only 3 miles no one will ever know". If not fixed this meet should move to Mullet Hall.
10/25/2013 8:49:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
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Course does not have to be an exact 3.1 miles. Someone better get their act together?? How about you set the course up since it doesn't take that much. In fact, you should measure the course and then run the meet off since that is not that hard to do. I am sure the hosts would be glad to step aside so you could do all the work!!
Course does not have to be an exact 3.1 miles. Someone better get their act together?? How about you set the course up since it doesn't take that much. In fact, you should measure the course and then run the meet off since that is not that hard to do. I am sure the hosts would be glad to step aside so you could do all the work!!
10/25/2013 8:54:19 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
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@Biros1555 How do you suggest they be punished? 10 lashes or water board?? Let's see, if all teams run the 3.0 not 3.1 course is it not the same for everyone? Geez, it is not worth getting all worked up over.
@Biros1555 How do you suggest they be punished? 10 lashes or water board?? Let's see, if all teams run the 3.0 not 3.1 course is it not the same for everyone? Geez, it is not worth getting all worked up over.
10/25/2013 8:57:52 AM
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NFHS Rule Book - According to Rule 9 Section 1 Art.1 "The cross country course shall be 2,500 to 5,000 meters (1.5 to 3.1 miles) in length as determined by the meet director or games committee." Having a course of 3.1 miles is mainly of value in comparing performances at different venues. One of the most prestigious venues is Van Courtland Park in NYC and the races run on this course are 1.25 miles for freshmen and 2.5 miles for varsity runners. They also run 5k races at Van Courtland. Everyone at a venue must compete on the same course and therefore have the same level of difficulty.
NFHS Rule Book - According to Rule 9 Section 1 Art.1 "The cross country course shall be 2,500 to 5,000 meters (1.5 to 3.1 miles) in length as determined by the meet director or games committee." Having a course of 3.1 miles is mainly of value in comparing performances at different venues.
One of the most prestigious venues is Van Courtland Park in NYC and the races run on this course are 1.25 miles for freshmen and 2.5 miles for varsity runners. They also run 5k races at Van Courtland. Everyone at a venue must compete on the same course and therefore have the same level of difficulty.
10/25/2013 10:20:27 AM
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@CoachPV I found that in the rule book too and was going to respond in almost the same manner you did. However, after looking at the SCHSL 4A rule book, I do have a question though that maybe you or someone with more experience than me could answer. According to the SCHSL 4A Handbook, it states that the distance for boys and girls is 5000 meters (3.1 miles). The NFHS league allows for the course to be between 1.5-3.1 miles (2,500-5,000 meters) in length as determined by the meet director or games committe, but the SCHSL Handbook seems to be more firm on the distance. I guess my question is, which one takes precedence? I know in track, we follow the SCHSL Handbook as far as the order of events instead of the NFHS Rulebook so I'm just curious.
@CoachPV I found that in the rule book too and was going to respond in almost the same manner you did. However, after looking at the SCHSL 4A rule book, I do have a question though that maybe you or someone with more experience than me could answer. According to the SCHSL 4A Handbook, it states that the distance for boys and girls is 5000 meters (3.1 miles). The NFHS league allows for the course to be between 1.5-3.1 miles (2,500-5,000 meters) in length as determined by the meet director or games committe, but the SCHSL Handbook seems to be more firm on the distance. I guess my question is, which one takes precedence? I know in track, we follow the SCHSL Handbook as far as the order of events instead of the NFHS Rulebook so I'm just curious.
10/25/2013 10:23:54 AM
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Maybe I'm thinking of a different race but I thought there were torrential rains just before the race last year that caused them to shorten the course? Regardless it's simple.....toe the line and run as fast as you can and everything else will works itself out.
Maybe I'm thinking of a different race but I thought there were torrential rains just before the race last year that caused them to shorten the course?

Regardless it's simple.....toe the line and run as fast as you can and everything else will works itself out.
10/25/2013 1:30:49 PM
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@Iansfather your missing the point entirely. 1. Second most important race of the year. 2. Consistent courses ensure runners guage their times correctly. 3. It should be an easy fix, this is why we have standards, if the state meet course was 3M then I would be fine with it. If you or someone needs help with a course I would love to help! I have been invovled with over 8 major invites across 4 states. Not that hard to get things right. I will put my money were my mouth is!
@Iansfather your missing the point entirely. 1. Second most important race of the year. 2. Consistent courses ensure runners guage their times correctly. 3. It should be an easy fix, this is why we have standards, if the state meet course was 3M then I would be fine with it. If you or someone needs help with a course I would love to help! I have been invovled with over 8 major invites across 4 states. Not that hard to get things right. I will put my money were my mouth is!
10/25/2013 2:21:32 PM
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In SCHSL rules the following are the distances 4A 3.1 miles, for 3A it says between 2.9-3.1 miles, for 2A it says about 3 miles and for 1A there is no designated distance. Not very consistence across classifications.
In SCHSL rules the following are the distances 4A 3.1 miles, for 3A it says between 2.9-3.1 miles, for 2A it says about 3 miles and for 1A there is no designated distance. Not very consistence across classifications.
10/25/2013 2:32:32 PM
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@CoachPV I didn't check out the other classifications, but I do think it is interesting that there is a difference among divisions specifying course length. Maybe it is just me, but I would think that would lend itself to some confusion as to what the acceptable course length should be for the given qualifiers, especially since they often qualify on the same course. Obviously, for 2A and 3A, a 3 mile course would fall within the guidelines set by the SCHSL and the NFHS rulebook and would therefore be an acceptable distance for a qualifying meet as far as I'm concerned. Also, I'm assuming that 1A would defer to the NFHS rulebook since the SCHSL doesn't specify, but what about 4A? Does the SCHSL Handbook take precedence, or should meet directors follow the NFHS rulebook? I'm not trying to be difficult or criticize any meet directors, I legitimately don't know.
@CoachPV I didn't check out the other classifications, but I do think it is interesting that there is a difference among divisions specifying course length. Maybe it is just me, but I would think that would lend itself to some confusion as to what the acceptable course length should be for the given qualifiers, especially since they often qualify on the same course. Obviously, for 2A and 3A, a 3 mile course would fall within the guidelines set by the SCHSL and the NFHS rulebook and would therefore be an acceptable distance for a qualifying meet as far as I'm concerned. Also, I'm assuming that 1A would defer to the NFHS rulebook since the SCHSL doesn't specify, but what about 4A? Does the SCHSL Handbook take precedence, or should meet directors follow the NFHS rulebook? I'm not trying to be difficult or criticize any meet directors, I legitimately don't know.
10/25/2013 4:28:21 PM
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@lifeguard21 As a Class A coach of XC and track, I have always followed the NFHS guidelines. My position is solidified based on the inconsistency and illogic of the SCHSL guidelines that just came to my attention. That said, if all harriers are running the same distance on a given course that is well marked with one and two mile markers, there is no issue.
@lifeguard21
As a Class A coach of XC and track, I have always followed the NFHS guidelines. My position is solidified based on the inconsistency and illogic of the SCHSL guidelines that just came to my attention. That said, if all harriers are running the same distance on a given course that is well marked with one and two mile markers, there is no issue.
10/25/2013 10:28:41 PM
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Real runners prefer accurately measured, marked and timed courses. Mile markers visible, clocks also, at least at the finish!! .1 is .1 it does make a difference. And, since these courses usually are then listed as a 5k course even though it was short it gives an air of dishonesty to it. At least list it for the distance it is. None of the times should count when ranking or on profiles!
Real runners prefer accurately measured, marked and timed courses. Mile markers visible, clocks also, at least at the finish!! .1 is .1 it does make a difference. And, since these courses usually are then listed as a 5k course even though it was short it gives an air of dishonesty to it. At least list it for the distance it is. None of the times should count when ranking or on profiles!
10/26/2013 12:40:35 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
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@IRunFast2 Thank you for the positive comments. I agree with your statement but would also like to say I agree with others comments as well regarding how long the course is thus making it equal for all athletes. Very true but this is a big meet, and like IRunFast2 suggest, "runners prefer accurate measurements, clocks, miles clearly marked" not a lot to ask. Thanks for the argument, I think we all found a topic for coaches to discuss within the rule books regarding distances for courses. I wish everyone competing this weekend and beyond the best of luck with your runs! I am venturing to DC to compete in the Marine Corps Marathon... if it was 26.0 and not 26.2 I would feel robbed!
@IRunFast2 Thank you for the positive comments. I agree with your statement but would also like to say I agree with others comments as well regarding how long the course is thus making it equal for all athletes. Very true but this is a big meet, and like IRunFast2 suggest, "runners prefer accurate measurements, clocks, miles clearly marked" not a lot to ask. Thanks for the argument, I think we all found a topic for coaches to discuss within the rule books regarding distances for courses. I wish everyone competing this weekend and beyond the best of luck with your runs! I am venturing to DC to compete in the Marine Corps Marathon... if it was 26.0 and not 26.2 I would feel robbed!

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