Coaches Classic
03/19/2013 9:36:11 AM
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The forum has been pretty quiet this season. Now that we have Coaches Classic this weekend I'm wondering if anyone has any predictions?
The forum has been pretty quiet this season. Now that we have Coaches Classic this weekend I'm wondering if anyone has any predictions?
03/19/2013 11:26:27 AM
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@Bert - Lots of rain!!!
@Bert - Lots of rain!!!
03/19/2013 12:15:53 PM
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@Bert Should a great meet, I am going Wando for the win! They have a scoring threat in every event minus two. Big points in pole vault, high jump, with Kenny Waring due for a break out. A.J. Gawryluk should score in mile and two mile goi g sub 4:30 and sub 9:40. Hampton Harvin clears 6'8. I think the pack of Langston, Demerest, Andre, Gabriel, Morales. All go sub 9:25. With Lantz, Gawryluk and others under 9:40. Good luck to all!
@Bert Should a great meet, I am going Wando for the win! They have a scoring threat in every event minus two. Big points in pole vault, high jump, with Kenny Waring due for a break out. A.J. Gawryluk should score in mile and two mile goi g sub 4:30 and sub 9:40. Hampton Harvin clears 6'8.

I think the pack of Langston, Demerest, Andre, Gabriel, Morales. All go sub 9:25. With Lantz, Gawryluk and others under 9:40.

Good luck to all!
03/22/2013 8:57:00 AM
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I really hope the weather cooperates. It would be good to see where everyone stands at this point in the season. It's hard to keep up with progress, since it doesn't seem like weekday meets are taken very seriously. SC should definitely consider 2day weekday meets and “requiring” that meet results from all weekday meets be submitted to milesplit in the proper electronic format within a certain amount of days. Kinda touches on keeping up with stats and records along with ensuring others around the country can see how kids in SC are progressing. Kids will only take meets as seriously as the coaches and the people who run meets. So, extra effort should be made to start on time, pre-organize, maintain meet structure and demand accurate and timely reporting of stats. Just saying!
I really hope the weather cooperates. It would be good to see where everyone stands at this point in the season. It's hard to keep up with progress, since it doesn't seem like weekday meets are taken very seriously. SC should definitely consider 2day weekday meets and "requiring" that meet results from all weekday meets be submitted to milesplit in the proper electronic format within a certain amount of days. Kinda touches on keeping up with stats and records along with ensuring others around the country can see how kids in SC are progressing. Kids will only take meets as seriously as the coaches and the people who run meets. So, extra effort should be made to start on time, pre-organize, maintain meet structure and demand accurate and timely reporting of stats. Just saying!
03/22/2013 12:41:04 PM
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@kvsmith95 - Hate to be the one that said, "I told you so", but ........
@kvsmith95 - Hate to be the one that said, "I told you so", but ........
03/22/2013 3:41:40 PM
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It has rained and been cold this exact weekend for that past three years. It may be a good idea to move the meet to the week after or before he Taco Bell meet to almost ensure at least warm weather and to ensure most of the kids will be in shape which should equal better overall results.
It has rained and been cold this exact weekend for that past three years. It may be a good idea to move the meet to the week after or before he Taco Bell meet to almost ensure at least warm weather and to ensure most of the kids will be in shape which should equal better overall results.
03/23/2013 7:01:25 AM
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DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CANCEL TRACK MEETS IN OREGON BECAUSE OF RAIN ? TOUGHEN UP SC AND GET WET. ITS NOT GOING TO KILL YOU. LIGHTNING IS ONE THING BUT RAIN IS ANOTHER
DO YOU REALLY THINK THEY CANCEL TRACK MEETS IN OREGON BECAUSE OF RAIN ? TOUGHEN UP SC AND GET WET. ITS NOT GOING TO KILL YOU. LIGHTNING IS ONE THING BUT RAIN IS ANOTHER
03/23/2013 10:31:45 AM
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@OVER40RUNNER I was just thinking the same thing as I saw your comment, It is crazy that SC is afraid of rain. Every event in track and field, with maybe the exception of hurdles, LJ, TJ, and HJ (and I think they might even still be okay) can perform in the rain just fine. Yea there needs to be some rule change about this.
@OVER40RUNNER I was just thinking the same thing as I saw your comment, It is crazy that SC is afraid of rain. Every event in track and field, with maybe the exception of hurdles, LJ, TJ, and HJ (and I think they might even still be okay) can perform in the rain just fine. Yea there needs to be some rule change about this.
03/23/2013 10:47:17 AM
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@kvsmith95 I agree with you on that, I think their should be a rule that says you have to run EVERYONE (Including your top guys and girls) at not necessarily all but a good portion of Wednesday meets. This goes along with the meets not being taken very seriously. A lot of teams are doing this thing now of running your Top guys at invitationals and big races like regionals only. Don't get me wrong I understand doing this sometimes (save the injuries and energy for the bigger competition) but they shouldn't do it all the time and need to run at the Wednesday meets as well. Like you said it gives us an idea where everyones times are and the progress of everyone. Just my opinion
@kvsmith95 I agree with you on that, I think their should be a rule that says you have to run EVERYONE (Including your top guys and girls) at not necessarily all but a good portion of Wednesday meets. This goes along with the meets not being taken very seriously. A lot of teams are doing this thing now of running your Top guys at invitationals and big races like regionals only. Don't get me wrong I understand doing this sometimes (save the injuries and energy for the bigger competition) but they shouldn't do it all the time and need to run at the Wednesday meets as well. Like you said it gives us an idea where everyones times are and the progress of everyone. Just my opinion
03/23/2013 11:01:10 AM
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On a good track the only event I know would be a definite problem would be the Pole Vault. Controlling a discus would be difficult depending on how wet. I could see some potential problems with High Hurdles for males and triple jump. Back in '75 I took my team to Buccaneer Relays, Furman, Clemson and it rained every weekend. We finished all meets to my recollection. I remember having a young man in the 400 hurdles at Clemson and the event was contested. I packed my rain suit every meet and an umbrella.
On a good track the only event I know would be a definite problem would be the Pole Vault. Controlling a discus would be difficult depending on how wet. I could see some potential problems with High Hurdles for males and triple jump. Back in '75 I took my team to Buccaneer Relays, Furman, Clemson and it rained every weekend. We finished all meets to my recollection. I remember having a young man in the 400 hurdles at Clemson and the event was contested. I packed my rain suit every meet and an umbrella.
03/23/2013 1:52:34 PM
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@OVER40RUNNER - Don't need to go to Oregon. Just look at NC. Pretty sure the Queen City Relays went today and I know NC is colder and wetter. Should let teams who want to show come and run and refund those who cancel due to weather. Just calls for a paradigm shift in be flexible. Is practice cancelled when it rains? If so, that explains alot.
@OVER40RUNNER - Don't need to go to Oregon. Just look at NC. Pretty sure the Queen City Relays went today and I know NC is colder and wetter. Should let teams who want to show come and run and refund those who cancel due to weather. Just calls for a paradigm shift in be flexible. Is practice cancelled when it rains? If so, that explains alot.
03/23/2013 3:34:41 PM
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Live results are posted for Queen City Relays with all events being contested.
Live results are posted for Queen City Relays with all events being contested.
03/23/2013 9:24:45 PM
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@mdog- -I agree whole heartedly! I don't know why anyone would reduce competitive reps for anyone, especially their "stars". Weekday meets are a glorified practices with more intensity, so why miss a practice and a chance to improve something. SC runners are already at a disadvantage with no winter track so why limit reps. I guess that is the diff btwn being SC fast and National fast. If your goal is only to win state running just fast enough will do. If your goal for your kids is to be one of the top kids in the nation (who won't crack under pressure) then why would hitting the track on weds not be part of the training plan. Better get them on the track to drop some time. I wonder how the SC state champs would match up against state champs in surrounding states? I do know they wouldn't make the finals rounds in state championships in quite a few states which impacts the kids the most when it comes to scholarships offers and whether those offers are to 1st, 2nd or third tier schools. Think about it, Where are they now, USC, CLEMSON, LSU, TEXAS A&M? Remember, place matters most to high school coaches and time matters most to college coaches. Gotta be on the track to run better times and practice is not the same as a meet. Officially off my soap box on this topic!
@mdog- -I agree whole heartedly! I don't know why anyone would reduce competitive reps for anyone, especially their "stars". Weekday meets are a glorified practices with more intensity, so why miss a practice and a chance to improve something. SC runners are already at a disadvantage with no winter track so why limit reps. I guess that is the diff btwn being SC fast and National fast. If your goal is only to win state running just fast enough will do. If your goal for your kids is to be one of the top kids in the nation (who won't crack under pressure) then why would hitting the track on weds not be part of the training plan. Better get them on the track to drop some time. I wonder how the SC state champs would match up against state champs in surrounding states? I do know they wouldn't make the finals rounds in state championships in quite a few states which impacts the kids the most when it comes to scholarships offers and whether those offers are to 1st, 2nd or third tier schools. Think about it, Where are they now, USC, CLEMSON, LSU, TEXAS A&M? Remember, place matters most to high school coaches and time matters most to college coaches. Gotta be on the track to run better times and practice is not the same as a meet. Officially off my soap box on this topic!
03/24/2013 3:18:45 PM
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[quote=kvsmith95]@mdog- -I agree whole heartedly! I don't know why anyone would reduce competitive reps for anyone, especially their "stars". Weekday meets are a glorified practices with more intensity, so why miss a practice and a chance to improve something. SC runners are already at a disadvantage with no winter track so why limit reps. I guess that is the diff btwn being SC fast and National fast. If your goal is only to win state running just fast enough will do. If your goal for your kids is to be one of the top kids in the nation (who won't crack under pressure) then why would hitting the track on weds not be part of the training plan. Better get them on the track to drop some time. I wonder how the SC state champs would match up against state champs in surrounding states? I do know they wouldn't make the finals rounds in state championships in quite a few states which impacts the kids the most when it comes to scholarships offers and whether those offers are to 1st, 2nd or third tier schools. Think about it, Where are they now, USC, CLEMSON, LSU, TEXAS A&M? Remember, place matters most to high school coaches and time matters most to college coaches. Gotta be on the track to run better times and practice is not the same as a meet. Officially off my soap box on this topic![/quote] Maybe its different for sprinters, but I think all good coaches would agree that it would be more productive for distance runners to run a good workout rather than a few races in which they outclass the field. SC kids aren't less competitive nationally because they aren't racing enough on Wednesday; they aren't nationally competitive because either A. they aren't training properly, or B. they aren't going to nationally competitive meets. Designed workouts are always going to be more conducive to increasing fitness that a conglomeration of a few races at a crappy Wednesday meet. As far as sprinters go, why waste race efforts on Wednesday at meets that aren't FAT, and thus less appealing to college coaches looking to recruit off time?
kvsmith95 wrote:
@mdog- -I agree whole heartedly! I don't know why anyone would reduce competitive reps for anyone, especially their "stars". Weekday meets are a glorified practices with more intensity, so why miss a practice and a chance to improve something. SC runners are already at a disadvantage with no winter track so why limit reps. I guess that is the diff btwn being SC fast and National fast. If your goal is only to win state running just fast enough will do. If your goal for your kids is to be one of the top kids in the nation (who won't crack under pressure) then why would hitting the track on weds not be part of the training plan. Better get them on the track to drop some time. I wonder how the SC state champs would match up against state champs in surrounding states? I do know they wouldn't make the finals rounds in state championships in quite a few states which impacts the kids the most when it comes to scholarships offers and whether those offers are to 1st, 2nd or third tier schools. Think about it, Where are they now, USC, CLEMSON, LSU, TEXAS A&M? Remember, place matters most to high school coaches and time matters most to college coaches. Gotta be on the track to run better times and practice is not the same as a meet. Officially off my soap box on this topic!


Maybe its different for sprinters, but I think all good coaches would agree that it would be more productive for distance runners to run a good workout rather than a few races in which they outclass the field. SC kids aren't less competitive nationally because they aren't racing enough on Wednesday; they aren't nationally competitive because either A. they aren't training properly, or B. they aren't going to nationally competitive meets. Designed workouts are always going to be more conducive to increasing fitness that a conglomeration of a few races at a crappy Wednesday meet.

As far as sprinters go, why waste race efforts on Wednesday at meets that aren't FAT, and thus less appealing to college coaches looking to recruit off time?
03/24/2013 4:12:34 PM
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For sprinters and throwers, more competition is usually better. Even better than a workout, for the most part--give a long sprinter 400, 200, 4x4 with a jersey on and it's his best special endurance workout of the week. But distance, especially when you are dealing with some of the top guys who have tried to hold a peak from XC, maybe chase some good times in indoor, and then come back in outdoor--not so much. This is especially true if what it takes to win on Wednesday is not as good or better than the workout you would do. Just plot the logic out: if more reps is always better, why not have every distance guy worth his salt do 800, 1600, 3200, and a relay leg every Wednesday and every Saturday?
For sprinters and throwers, more competition is usually better. Even better than a workout, for the most part--give a long sprinter 400, 200, 4x4 with a jersey on and it's his best special endurance workout of the week. But distance, especially when you are dealing with some of the top guys who have tried to hold a peak from XC, maybe chase some good times in indoor, and then come back in outdoor--not so much. This is especially true if what it takes to win on Wednesday is not as good or better than the workout you would do. Just plot the logic out: if more reps is always better, why not have every distance guy worth his salt do 800, 1600, 3200, and a relay leg every Wednesday and every Saturday?
03/24/2013 4:21:14 PM
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Rather than keep some athletes out of a Wednesday meet, I don't schedule a meet for every Wednesday. I agree that athletes should get quality workouts, and a track meet will not really get them what they need. Distance runners probably shouldn't be running meets every Wednesday and Saturday, but I think that if a Wednesday meet is run, all of the athletes on the team need to run. It should not be a practice meet. Down here in Beaufort, I get tired of running against the same teams over and over again. When I ran track in the 60's and early 70's in Indiana, every meet was competetive and everybody on the team ran. We did not run against the same teams again and again and again. The biggest meets that we had were 3-way meets, and there were mostly dual meets during the season. It's not unusual to see 7-teams show up to a Wednesday meet these days. That was unheard of back in the 60's. I believe it would be a lot more motivating for the athletes if they ran against different teams for the majority of the season. If you've already beat an athlete 3 times, there is a pretty good chance the same thing is going to happen the 4th time. Boring. I think I would pick and choose my Wednesday meets to make sure that they are quality meets. I believe the most enjoyable meet my team ran is last year was a dual meet with Porter Gaud. It was well run, and it was still daylight when we returned home.
Rather than keep some athletes out of a Wednesday meet, I don't schedule a meet for every Wednesday. I agree that athletes should get quality workouts, and a track meet will not really get them what they need. Distance runners probably shouldn't be running meets every Wednesday and Saturday, but I think that if a Wednesday meet is run, all of the athletes on the team need to run. It should not be a practice meet. Down here in Beaufort, I get tired of running against the same teams over and over again. When I ran track in the 60's and early 70's in Indiana, every meet was competetive and everybody on the team ran. We did not run against the same teams again and again and again. The biggest meets that we had were 3-way meets, and there were mostly dual meets during the season. It's not unusual to see 7-teams show up to a Wednesday meet these days. That was unheard of back in the 60's. I believe it would be a lot more motivating for the athletes if they ran against different teams for the majority of the season. If you've already beat an athlete 3 times, there is a pretty good chance the same thing is going to happen the 4th time. Boring. I think I would pick and choose my Wednesday meets to make sure that they are quality meets. I believe the most enjoyable meet my team ran is last year was a dual meet with Porter Gaud. It was well run, and it was still daylight when we returned home.
03/24/2013 6:02:57 PM
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1. Maintain flexibility in Wednesday schedules. 2. Do away with the practice of almost mandatorily supporting track meets of other local high schools, especially when those schools aren't fielding competitive teams or have very unequal talent across the board. 3. Start Wednesday meets on time! Show up late and miss events period. 4. Put more effort into organizing meets and ensuring equipment and volunteers are in place beforehand. 5. Charge less to enter Weds meets. Wouldn't it be better for the sport in general to charge students much less like $2 and adults $3. Never going to make money from weekday meets, so wouldn't it be smarter to have more people inside to use concessions and support the teams? The way most Weds meet go they should prob be free or pay people to sit thru them. 6. Think about the health and growth of the Sport! 7. Invest and "train" in meet management and timing technologies!! 8-10. Start meets on time! 11. Every other sport leaves school early to make matches, games, etc. on time so why should track be different Basically, if more coaches took Wednesday meets seriously then so would more athletes and the public. Sometimes common sense is the best answer!
1. Maintain flexibility in Wednesday schedules.
2. Do away with the practice of almost mandatorily supporting track meets of other local high schools, especially when those schools aren't fielding competitive teams or have very unequal talent across the board.
3. Start Wednesday meets on time! Show up late and miss events period.
4. Put more effort into organizing meets and ensuring equipment and volunteers are in place beforehand.
5. Charge less to enter Weds meets. Wouldn't it be better for the sport in general to charge students much less like $2 and adults $3. Never going to make money from weekday meets, so wouldn't it be smarter to have more people inside to use concessions and support the teams? The way most Weds meet go they should prob be free or pay people to sit thru them.
6. Think about the health and growth of the Sport!
7. Invest and "train" in meet management and timing technologies!!
8-10. Start meets on time!
11. Every other sport leaves school early to make matches, games, etc. on time so why should track be different

Basically, if more coaches took Wednesday meets seriously then so would more athletes and the public.
Sometimes common sense is the best answer!
03/25/2013 11:37:55 AM
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@CoachPV Concur. In the Willamette Valley of Oregon, we ran rain or shine in the 60's and 70's. Javelin was also included. Nearly all the high school tracks 40+ years ago in the Beaver State were well-drained rubber asphalt facilities. Prior to the inclusion of girls, a varsity dual or tri-meet was completed in two hours meaning distance runners had about 30 minutes recovery between the mile, 880 and two mile (4 x 800/880 was added years later). Once in awhile, a two-miler finished the day with a leg on the mile relay.
@CoachPV Concur. In the Willamette Valley of Oregon, we ran rain or shine in the 60's and 70's. Javelin was also included. Nearly all the high school tracks 40+ years ago in the Beaver State were well-drained rubber asphalt facilities. Prior to the inclusion of girls, a varsity dual or tri-meet was completed in two hours meaning distance runners had about 30 minutes recovery between the mile, 880 and two mile (4 x 800/880 was added years later). Once in awhile, a two-miler finished the day with a leg on the mile relay.
03/25/2013 12:49:43 PM
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The biggest problem is our society has become more and more an indoor society. People in general spend more time indoors today than they did 20 years ago. Like many of you, I remember training in all kinds of weather. If the conditions were icy, we were inside practicing, otherwise, we were outside. The only reason meets were cancelled was for thunderstorms. My last year coaching in Ohio, we held an invitational in the snow. The only event that was not contested was the pole vault. Was very disappointed that we cancelled the meet Saturday, but like many, I think this is the state of our culture more than the state of track and field. Bill Bowerman says it best, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only weak runners."
The biggest problem is our society has become more and more an indoor society. People in general spend more time indoors today than they did 20 years ago. Like many of you, I remember training in all kinds of weather. If the conditions were icy, we were inside practicing, otherwise, we were outside. The only reason meets were cancelled was for thunderstorms. My last year coaching in Ohio, we held an invitational in the snow. The only event that was not contested was the pole vault. Was very disappointed that we cancelled the meet Saturday, but like many, I think this is the state of our culture more than the state of track and field.
Bill Bowerman says it best, "There is no such thing as bad weather, only weak runners."
03/25/2013 1:16:06 PM
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I share many of the old-school guys' feelings about dual meets, running in rain, etc. But the world we live in now is just different. We ran duals on Tuesday and Thursday, and barely raced on Saturdays except for lower state and state. I was able to hold a weekend job bagging groceries in-season! There was no AAU basketball, club volleyball, or year-round soccer. Indeed, when I ran, soccer in SC was a winter sport. We did occasionally rain out a home meet, because the chalk lane lines would wash off of our clay track. There are lots of things I would gladly change if it were in my power to do so. But just playing the role of "grumpy old man" doesn't do much to grow the sport or develop my team today. The big Saturday meets, nice as they are, limit entries to 2-3 per event. On Wednesdays, I care just as much about getting a freshman to run his first-ever sub-60 or a middle school girl getting PR in the 1600 that could be timed with a sundial. Some of those kids are going to be the Saturday studs in a few years. One of my pet reforms would be to have dual meets within regions and use that as part of awarding region championships. But even then, who wants to go to (or put on) a dual between a school with 100 on the roster vs. one with 20, or a dual between sprints & jumps HS vs. distance & throwers academy? As it is, we just do the best we can within the system that currently exists.
I share many of the old-school guys' feelings about dual meets, running in rain, etc. But the world we live in now is just different. We ran duals on Tuesday and Thursday, and barely raced on Saturdays except for lower state and state. I was able to hold a weekend job bagging groceries in-season! There was no AAU basketball, club volleyball, or year-round soccer. Indeed, when I ran, soccer in SC was a winter sport. We did occasionally rain out a home meet, because the chalk lane lines would wash off of our clay track. There are lots of things I would gladly change if it were in my power to do so. But just playing the role of "grumpy old man" doesn't do much to grow the sport or develop my team today. The big Saturday meets, nice as they are, limit entries to 2-3 per event. On Wednesdays, I care just as much about getting a freshman to run his first-ever sub-60 or a middle school girl getting PR in the 1600 that could be timed with a sundial. Some of those kids are going to be the Saturday studs in a few years. One of my pet reforms would be to have dual meets within regions and use that as part of awarding region championships. But even then, who wants to go to (or put on) a dual between a school with 100 on the roster vs. one with 20, or a dual between sprints & jumps HS vs. distance & throwers academy? As it is, we just do the best we can within the system that currently exists.

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